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11 August 2010 @ 03:51 pm
Unfortunately, he probably doesn't have a Metallicar.  
When you talk about TV, usually you talk about canon.  What actually, factually happened in the episodes.  Some people expand canon to include what the writers/producers/directors/actors have to say.  Some include books or comics or other non-TV stories.  Some include generally accepted interpretations of subtext - for instance, neither actually says it, but it's clear that John and Delenn are in love with each other well before the end of S3; raising that point would almost always be considered consistent with canon.

What I want to talk about is fanon.  The things fans come up with on their own.  I'm not particularly interested in fanon that contradicts canon; that's just being an obstinate fan who ends up bitterly hating the source material.  But those little details that people come up with to flesh out the universe, be it in meta or fiction or something else, that may or may not end up becoming generally accepted.  nhpw brought this up the other day, about how in fic, you see a lot of "Sheridan is a god in bed."  That's definitely a fanon thing.  We (unfortunately) never learned on the show itself about his prowess, so that's an interpretation that was left up to the fans.

What fanon things do you accept yourself?  Which ones do you hate?  What's your own personal crazy fanon?  Me, for instance, I like to imagine that Sheridan listened to classic rock growing up because that's what his great-granddad listened to - remember, "As my great-granddad would have said, 'cool'"? - and that when his parents were running around doing diplomat-y stuff, he stayed with relatives.  He probably got shit for it at the Academy.  But when he's in his office, late at night, doing boring paperwork, he just rocks out to "Carry On My Wayward Son" or something.  Nothing in canon contradicts that, so I'm free to believe it as much as I want.

Also, when I imagine events S5 and later in my head, I can just pretend he doesn't have his stupid goatee and ugly brown hair; that is contradicted by canon, but since it's just in my head and I'm not doing fanart, I think it's okay.
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there's coffee in that nebula: btvs angel/wesley beginningun_crayon_rouge on August 11th, 2010 09:05 pm (UTC)
Sheridan liking classic rock immediately clicked, I would have to say yes to that. I do like those little things that fans think of and that sometimes take on a life of their own and end up seeping into a lot of fanfiction, not just of a particular author, but of many. Can't seem to come up with a good example now... One personal example is that I always thought Will Riker of ST:TNG had a training in classical piano; it would give a nice contrast to his personality.

What I do hate is the kind of fanon that insists that people in shows are "really" gay and totally in love with each other. I personally am a big fan of the intense masculine conflicted relationship, and I can even accept that certain characters (male or female) are, in some way, "in love" with each other, but I think it takes more for two basically straight characters to just go and have sex, and this kind of fanfiction always leaves me very dissatisfied.
Shannon: tng dynamic duokungfuwaynewho on August 11th, 2010 09:21 pm (UTC)
Howdy! Well, if Riker had training in classical piano and nothing else, that would explain his trombone playing (ba-duh-duh-duuuuh).

I've been sitting here for literally ten minutes trying to think of other fanon things from other shows - and I know that I know plenty - and I'm coming up blank, too. WTF.

Slash is such a touchy subject in fandom. I'm not necessarily pro- or anti- but I do think certain fandoms can get kind of myopic when it comes to shipping and slash specifically. I'm thinking of the kind of fans that reduce an entire show down to a single relationship, ignore everything else, and then go crazy. You know, the ones that end up on Fandom Wank. I think there's something positive to be gained from fans saying, no, we're not just going to accept a heteronormative view where everyone's default straight and just because the one relationship we've seen this character in was het that doesn't necessarily mean anything. BUT, I think for me is when it's an insistence that it's canon, like you said. Fanon? Fine. Personal fanfic ship preference? Okay. But when it turns into the "how I interpret the show is the only right way," then it doesn't matter if it's slash or something else, it's wanky.
(no subject) - un_crayon_rouge on August 11th, 2010 09:31 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kungfuwaynewho on August 11th, 2010 09:34 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - un_crayon_rouge on August 11th, 2010 09:42 pm (UTC) (Expand)
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(no subject) - un_crayon_rouge on August 11th, 2010 09:52 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kungfuwaynewho on August 11th, 2010 09:53 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - un_crayon_rouge on August 11th, 2010 09:57 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kungfuwaynewho on August 11th, 2010 09:59 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - un_crayon_rouge on August 11th, 2010 10:02 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kungfuwaynewho on August 11th, 2010 10:07 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kungfuwaynewho on August 12th, 2010 03:20 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - un_crayon_rouge on August 12th, 2010 03:25 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kungfuwaynewho on August 12th, 2010 03:32 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - un_crayon_rouge on August 12th, 2010 03:45 pm (UTC) (Expand)
here it is - un_crayon_rouge on August 12th, 2010 03:30 pm (UTC) (Expand)
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lizbee: B5: Delenn (shadow dancer)lizbee on August 11th, 2010 09:28 pm (UTC)
Delenn totally tricked him into growing it.

"Maybe I should shave it off."


Next morning:

"...where did all my razors go?"
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(no subject) - lizbee on August 11th, 2010 09:33 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Shannon: b5 wwe flashforwardkungfuwaynewho on August 11th, 2010 09:28 pm (UTC)
OOO, I like it. I can buy that. And I'm immediately reminded of Lennier's apparently totally emo diary entries after he was just going to let Sheridan die - they were probably all, "She just doesn't like me because I'm not actually a man!" Or whatever.


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(no subject) - lizbee on August 11th, 2010 09:37 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kungfuwaynewho on August 11th, 2010 09:40 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - un_crayon_rouge on August 11th, 2010 09:44 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - nhpw on August 11th, 2010 11:35 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kungfuwaynewho on August 12th, 2010 12:15 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - nhpw on August 12th, 2010 12:57 am (UTC) (Expand)
lizbee: B5: Delenn (shadow dancer)lizbee on August 11th, 2010 09:34 pm (UTC)
There are lots of fanon things I've picked up from fics, like the idea -- I think I've traced it back to leyenn -- that Sheridan's sister resides on Proxima. I try to avoid the stuff from the Minbari dictionary on jumpnow.de, though, because it doesn't quite gel with my idea of the Minbari, and I have some Issues with the fic that spawned it.

Let's see, my own personal bits of fanon:

- Delenn, Mayan and Branmer basically grew up together; Delenn and Mayan are distant cousins, and Branmer met them at school.
- David Sheridan (II) was mostly educated on Minbar, but spent his last few years of education on Earth, attending the same Jesuit school as Jeffrey Sinclair. Parent-teacher night with Delenn: A BLAST.
- even though we never see them, Sheridan and Delenn have a vast army of staff supporting their roles in the ISA. Sheridan's press secretary considers herself to have the worst job in the galaxy.
Shannonkungfuwaynewho on August 11th, 2010 09:37 pm (UTC)
I've only seen the show through once, so I totally did think Sheridan's sister lived on Proxima. I wonder if I just read it in enough fics already that it leeched into my brain. That's kind of amazing.

God, your second point - specifically about parent/teacher night - made me laugh. But yeah, I can see that, too.
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(no subject) - kungfuwaynewho on August 11th, 2010 11:30 pm (UTC) (Expand)
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(no subject) - lizbee on August 12th, 2010 06:43 am (UTC) (Expand)
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Shannonkungfuwaynewho on August 11th, 2010 09:52 pm (UTC)
Hee! I actually like the full beard from the end of S4 and Sleeping in Light. But it was the combination of the goatee and the horrible dye job that just killed me. Every time they had an S5 kissy scene, I was just like, all I can see is that UGLY FUCKING ORANGE GOATEE.
Anne Marieindigoviolet on August 11th, 2010 09:54 pm (UTC)
EDIT: SORRY I was reposting to put both comments into one, and then you replied and now I'm messing up your damn LJ.

(Am I the only Sheridan fangirl who liked the goatee?)

Oh, and I always figured Delenn was in love with Dukhat. Mirroring Lennier's love for her. Maybe this is actually hinted at in canon, I dunno?

I have some more stupid and weird ones I don't feel like posting right now. :)
Shannonkungfuwaynewho on August 11th, 2010 09:56 pm (UTC)
Hee! That's okay; I'm g-chatting with a friend right now (that sounds dirty, fella), so every time someone posts I instantly see it and of course am like, "I must reply RIGHT NOW."

But stupid and weird fanon is the best!
(no subject) - indigoviolet on August 11th, 2010 10:00 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kungfuwaynewho on August 11th, 2010 10:02 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Shannon: b5 garden talkkungfuwaynewho on August 11th, 2010 10:34 pm (UTC)
Also, rivendellrose was talking about Atonement here and brought up the question of Delenn/Dukhat, which is fascinating because there are so many possible interpretations of their relationship.
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nhpwnhpw on August 11th, 2010 11:41 pm (UTC)
I'm coming in late to this, it looks like. Real life WTF? Anyway. I do like the Minbari dictionary at jumpy, if for no other reason than I am really bad at making up words.

I also have read multiple stories (and admittedly wrote one myself) that either allude to or straight-up SAY that Delenn and Neroon once had a romantic relationship. I don't know why I like this. It seems... like it would work, somehow.

Also, again, I like the goatee. Someday I will write something called "In defense of Sheridan's goatee." But I will do it when I have had more than three hours of sleep.

...Oh yeah. I like it even more in "Call to Arms" when it's gray. :P
Shannon: b5 darkness and light handkungfuwaynewho on August 12th, 2010 12:19 am (UTC)
I am horrible at making up words, too; I've used that dictionary a couple times. I'm also really bad at coming up with names for the aliens. It's my nemesis...is.

I can see Delenn and Neroon. Maybe that's why she's so insistent on doing all the proper rituals with Sheridan; she had a wild affair with a warrior that ended badly, so she wants to make sure the next one works.

I am okay with it when it's gray! He was very handsome again in Call to Arms! I just don't know why they had to dye it. (I know why they dyed it; stronger visual contrast with making him look 20 years older in Sleeping in Light; although that's kinda negated by the definitely gray beard he had the last few episodes of S4. SO.)
ghanima sun: j/dghanimasun on August 12th, 2010 01:56 am (UTC)
This is a really interesting post and I wish I had something to contribute. I just can't think of any personal fanon about the show offhand. I definitely need to rewatch.

Although - I agree with you about Sheridan's s5 beard/hair being a travesty!
Shannon: b5 darkness and lightkungfuwaynewho on August 12th, 2010 02:05 am (UTC)
Although - I agree with you about Sheridan's s5 beard/hair being a travesty!

THANK YOU. I was starting to think I was the only one.
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nhpwnhpw on August 12th, 2010 12:17 pm (UTC)
I've said it before, but definitely with you on David.

When my brain starts calculating the plot for the B5 movie we'd all love to see but probably never will, it jumps on the idea that JMS should do it RIGHT NOW and use the passage of years to his advantage: He could do an "Out of Darkness"-esque plot (somehow working around the distinct lack of a Dr. Franklin and G'Kar... *tears*) and have Bruce's youngest son play David, because he'd be about the right age at this point. But, alas, call me a pessimist but I don't think we'll ever see that movie.
(no subject) - kungfuwaynewho on August 12th, 2010 01:56 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - nhpw on August 12th, 2010 03:32 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kungfuwaynewho on August 12th, 2010 03:36 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - nhpw on August 12th, 2010 03:53 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Shannonkungfuwaynewho on August 12th, 2010 01:49 pm (UTC)
I read that about Bruce. I wonder if submitting to whatever hair styling they wanted for him was in his contract (you'd think he'd have had enough star power and pull as the lead to get away from something like that), or if he went along with it because he trusted JMS's creative vision but still couldn't keep from bitching about it all the time, heh.

I seriously wouldn't mind the goatee so much if it weren't orange. Ugh. UGH.

I think Delenn crushed on Dukhat, too, but unlike Lennier, I don't think she ever even entertained the thought of having an actual chance with him. Whereas I think Lennier's problem is that he could never fully excise that tiny kernal of hope.
vjs2259: b5 mod squadvjs2259 on August 13th, 2010 02:08 am (UTC)
Late and shamefully skimming the comments above (sorry!)

I try to stick to canon unless I'm going wildly off the beaten path (and then I take care to alert the populace). And sometimes I take it all way too seriously (like dates and distances and ship sizes and other idiocies). But other people's takes are just fine with me.

Apparently I've taken on board Lizzie's living on Proxima cause I've used it. And I have an elaborate backstory for Delenn/Neroon and Delenn/Mayan as youngsters. The things that bother me in canon I generally work out for myself in fic.

I like the goatee. I always thought his keeping facial hair was something to do with Intersections (either covering scars or to remind him of what he'd endured.)

Delenn seemed to have a worship/crush on Dukhat, but I don't think she acted on it. It may explain why she totally screwed up with Lennier though.
Shannonkungfuwaynewho on August 13th, 2010 01:41 pm (UTC)
That's really interesting - the idea that the goatee had to do with his experience being tortured on Mars. I hadn't thought of it that way. It works for me, I think. Although aesthetically I'm still not fond of it. (Read: I like to see all of his pretty face.) I had just kinda thought that maybe, now that he's no longer career military, he just enjoyed not having to shave every morning. IDK, I like yours, better; fits with his character more.
(no subject) - vjs2259 on August 14th, 2010 05:12 pm (UTC) (Expand)